As a newbie, I don't ship these two after having watched the series in part because I love the later seasons and do find the Buffy/Spike dynamic more interesting (and more familiar somehow to my own life) BUT when I watching last year for the first time OH YES I cried for Buffy and wanted them to be together in S2. Yes, I thought SMG and DB had terrific chemistry. (Although I enjoy DB much more now that I've started watching Bones. He's a treat on that show.) And yes, the subversion of romantic tropes is fantastic. The way S3 wanted to have it both ways sort of killed it for me - but also, I wanted Buffy to move on and find happiness and closure. (Ha. I was new to Whedon, what did I know?) Although I think there's some subversion in that season as well - the fact that they CAN'T move on, or won't, can't let go of the ideal of each other, and it's killing any possibility of a lasting relationship. What's love got to do with it? (I know everyone remembers the last slow dance in The Prom but what I remember from that episode is the scene where he breaks up with her - ostensibly for her own good - in a freaking sewer. It really doesn't get any more subversive that than.)
But I abhor it when fans of either 'ship try to deny that either person was important to Buffy. (And in fact, I get cranky that people forget that Riley existed or minimize the damage he did to her as well. All of her lovers were important to her, during the relationships and afterwards.)
And I also don't ship B/A for the reasons you mention - the "twu luv" thing is the very thing being mocked here. (I really wish Joss had had the balls to write Angel in-character in Chosen - a scene with Buffy and Angel grown up and moved on, sharing where they are now in there lives, could have been fantastic.)
I have recently read some good B/A fics, in an attempt to expand my reading habits. In fact I've read some wonderful post-Chosen fics that are either B/A & S/B or B/A/S. When they do right by all the characters I'm a happy camper. I've also seen at least one or more try to have it both ways - Buffy/Angelus and Buffy/Angel, or all-demon AU's, etc. I find that the two 'shippers aren't as different as they think - I can find OOC romantic fluff in Spuffy fics, and plenty of wild hot sex in Bangel fics. When it comes to fandom, the heart wants what it wants.
I think what Joss did with the so-called S8 is unfortunate and just plain ugly, because it comes off as if he decided, "in the show I was subverting twu luv but these silly fangirls just don't get it so I'm going to parody Bangel fanfiction."
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As a newbie, I don't ship these two after having watched the series in part because I love the later seasons and do find the Buffy/Spike dynamic more interesting (and more familiar somehow to my own life) BUT when I watching last year for the first time OH YES I cried for Buffy and wanted them to be together in S2. Yes, I thought SMG and DB had terrific chemistry. (Although I enjoy DB much more now that I've started watching Bones. He's a treat on that show.) And yes, the subversion of romantic tropes is fantastic. The way S3 wanted to have it both ways sort of killed it for me - but also, I wanted Buffy to move on and find happiness and closure. (Ha. I was new to Whedon, what did I know?) Although I think there's some subversion in that season as well - the fact that they CAN'T move on, or won't, can't let go of the ideal of each other, and it's killing any possibility of a lasting relationship. What's love got to do with it? (I know everyone remembers the last slow dance in The Prom but what I remember from that episode is the scene where he breaks up with her - ostensibly for her own good - in a freaking sewer. It really doesn't get any more subversive that than.)
But I abhor it when fans of either 'ship try to deny that either person was important to Buffy. (And in fact, I get cranky that people forget that Riley existed or minimize the damage he did to her as well. All of her lovers were important to her, during the relationships and afterwards.)
And I also don't ship B/A for the reasons you mention - the "twu luv" thing is the very thing being mocked here. (I really wish Joss had had the balls to write Angel in-character in Chosen - a scene with Buffy and Angel grown up and moved on, sharing where they are now in there lives, could have been fantastic.)
I have recently read some good B/A fics, in an attempt to expand my reading habits. In fact I've read some wonderful post-Chosen fics that are either B/A & S/B or B/A/S. When they do right by all the characters I'm a happy camper. I've also seen at least one or more try to have it both ways - Buffy/Angelus and Buffy/Angel, or all-demon AU's, etc. I find that the two 'shippers aren't as different as they think - I can find OOC romantic fluff in Spuffy fics, and plenty of wild hot sex in Bangel fics. When it comes to fandom, the heart wants what it wants.
I think what Joss did with the so-called S8 is unfortunate and just plain ugly, because it comes off as if he decided, "in the show I was subverting twu luv but these silly fangirls just don't get it so I'm going to parody Bangel fanfiction."