ever_neutral (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
ever_neutral) wrote2013-12-09 12:33 am
ever_neutral) wrote2013-12-09 12:33 am
we tend to bruise easily, bad in the blood;
04 | the ship that would ruin the characters parties if it happened
For day 8 of ramble month
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spuffy_noelle asked me to ramble about Cesare/Lucrezia. Thus I've decided to use this as an opportunity to fill another day of that wrong shipping meme wrought from the pits of hell. It's going in this slot now for reasons of trolling and being literal. LBR, I prefer that my ships actually do happen (not least because teh sex), so let's go with a relationship that DID go there but would probably have been better off not doing so.
Why can I not be happy?
I will make you happy.
The above quote perhaps sums up why I am so weak to this ship, insofar as at core it basically combines my bullet-proof kinks of huntsman/queen and possessive destructive love in a gloriously incestuous package. At the same time, it is kind of the perfect story about incest in that it depicts the corruption of an initially functional and mutually fulfilling familial relationship into something completely twisted and abusive.
There can be no argument brooked as to the fact that at the beginning of the series, Cesare is Lucrezia's rock. He is her constant, her hero, her best friend, etc. etc. It is deeply unfortunate then that Cesare is unfortunately fucked in the head. (#sociopath) Of course, Cesare hides his darkness from his little sister, both because he wants her to keep adoring him and because he doesn't want her to be touched by the ugliness of their family dealings. There's a certain Madonna complex at play in his attitude towards her, but obviously the show dismantles that image completely. When their relationship crosses The Point of No Return, it does so because of Lucrezia. It could be no other way.
It's hugely important that Lucrezia is the one to initiate it (= teh incest sex), for the reason that the life of Lucrezia Borgia is one marked by a lack of agency. She was forced to grow up too fast in unimaginably cruel ways; she is trapped in a system determined to rob her of choices. Ergo, as a character, she is adamant about exercising control over her own life, be it by declaring she will never marry again or by deciding to keep two dudes on the go at the same time.
So, yes, in this case, teh incest sex = reclamation of her life after being nudged into another politically-motivated marriage.
It is fabulous/horrible then that the series ends with Cesare claiming possession of Lucrezia ("And mine", be still my rotting heart) while cleaning her bloody hands -- hands made bloody after euthanizing her unfortunate fiancee whom Cesare, of course, just mortally wounded. The role reversal is a beautiful thing tbh. Not just in the "fall" of Lucrezia, but also the shattering of her illusions about Cesare. He who was once her most trusted guardian, who would murder anyone who harmed her to protect her freedom, is now the reason her husband's blood is on her hands. Finally, she sees him as he is, in the dark -- and at this point, she's in too deep to get out.
IN CONCLUSION: My pain will go on.
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Yes.
What in the hell was this show.
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But this is a good post
He who was once her most trusted guardian, who would murder anyone who harmed her to protect her freedom, is now the reason her husband's blood is on her hands. Finally, she sees him as he is, in the dark -- and at this point, she's in too deep to get out.
*flails at the glorious incestuous tragedy*
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... Glad you enjoyed reading, though.
GO WATCH THE LAST SEASON.
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I CAN'T WATCH EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME THO.
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I CAN'T WATCH EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME THO.
UNACCEPTABLE.I'D SAY THIS TAKES PRIORITY THO.no subject
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AND YES, YOU MUST. DO IT NOW.
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ngl Cesare/Lucrezia is definitely on my list, though the day I had them at initially might have been pushed out by a new ship. (She says, knowing it will never get done.)
at core it basically combines my bullet-proof kinks of huntsman/queen and possessive destructive love in a gloriously incestuous package. At the same time, it is kind of the perfect story about incest in that it depicts the corruption of an initially functional and mutually fulfilling familial relationship into something completely twisted and abusive.
Yes this so much. And this is why, despite the lolarity of what I've heard the script was, I don't mind that C/L were going to blow up in the not-to-be-made-movie? I mean yes C/L were "endgame" as such, but it is the cruelest darkest endgame possible wherein the one place she thought she could be free turns into "and MINE" as Cesare nonrepentently embraces his feelings--and this might have been great for Lucrezia earlier in s1-2 except Cesare's really pulled out all the stops to becoming, well, Cesare Borgia.
Speaking of, Cesare's s3 arc taking a sudden leap forward after the steps in s1-2, best or best?
It's hugely important that Lucrezia is the one to initiate it (= teh incest sex), for the reason that the life of Lucrezia Borgia is one marked by a lack of agency. She was forced to grow up too fast in unimaginably cruel ways; she is trapped in a system determined to rob her of choices. Ergo, as a character, she is adamant about exercising control over her own life, be it by declaring she will never marry again or by deciding to keep two dudes on the go at the same time.
So, yes, in this case, teh incest sex = reclamation of her life after being nudged into another politically-motivated marriage.
Ya. This. All this. I loved it so much that 3x01-3x03 was a power exercise for Lucrezia as much as her feelings.
The role reversal is a beautiful thing tbh. Not just in the "fall" of Lucrezia, but also the shattering of her illusions about Cesare. He who was once her most trusted guardian, who would murder anyone who harmed her to protect her freedom, is now the reason her husband's blood is on her hands. Finally, she sees him as he is, in the dark -- and at this point, she's in too deep to get out.
Also, yes and no. I think it was less that Lucrezia was blind to Cesare, so much as that she thought he could never do that to her. But of course he could. He's become someone who'll claim possession first and her safety second. But also that's why I can't with bs romanticizing it--though I still found it hot because blood and hands like a hypocrite.
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OHO, A ~NEW~ SHIP, SHE SAYS.
Hold the phone. There was going to be a movie? TELL ALL.
I mean yes C/L were "endgame" as such, but it is the cruelest darkest endgame possible wherein the one place she thought she could be free turns into "and MINE" as Cesare nonrepentently embraces his feelings--and this might have been great for Lucrezia earlier in s1-2 except Cesare's really pulled out all the stops to becoming, well, Cesare Borgia.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. It's so beautiful tbh.
I don't really have a lot of Cesare feelings tbh? lol, despite the fact he is one half of my OTP. I basically enjoy him being a sociopath and am into his obsession with Lucrezia, but INTELLECTUAL THOUGHTS about his narrative arc is not my area. Nonetheless, I certainly agree that him becoming MORE sociopathic over the course of the show was a gr8 thing.
I think it was less that Lucrezia was blind to Cesare, so much as that she thought he could never do that to her.
Yes, this.
DO people romanticise it? I was under the impression Cesare/Lucrezia fandom had its collective head screwed on straight.
Everyone found it hot tbh.
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Cesare is a weird one for me because I enjoy his story arc the most of all the series arcs, but I'm not so attached to Cesare if that makes sense. (It's almost directly in opposition to Vanozza, actually, who I'm ridiculously attached to but doesn't have an arc)
My thoughts on romanticising it come from the final question in this poll but looking at the actual discussion has made me think that I had misjudged fandom--and they found it as disturbing and yet hot as I did.
ETA: Yes, the movie! The Borgia Apocalypse!
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lol, we are of the same mind re: Cesare, I see. (And they should have cut all of the Rodrigo/random women scenes and given them to a Vanozza arc IMO.)
looking at the actual discussion has made me think that I had misjudged fandom--and they found it as disturbing and yet hot as I did.
Well, that's heartening.
The Borgia APOCALYPSE?? *chokes on cream soda* ARE YOU PULLING MY LEG. If not, a great sorrow this never came to be.
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Ya. All that time could have been spent on Vanozza and Giulia instead of Rodrigo's boring sex life.
Nope, not pulling your leg.
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i'm not even a member here but lucrezia poisoning cesare is more out of character than cesare deciding he wants to quit the conquering business and would instead like to join a freestyle a capella group specializing in 90s dirty r n' b
THEY SHOULD MAKE THIS A MOVIE TBH